Digiarkiston keskustelufoorumi

I'm trying to find correct Eric Heickinen from Oulu birth date. I had a hint that said he was born aprox 1760 and in Hiski I found 2 of them - one born 1758 the other 1762. I'm using the 1758 Eric and just came across the 1760 Eric. I have attached the 2 Hiski Birth Entries and notice the place of birth: 1758 Eric born Vuokki, Paltamo and 1762 Eric born Kajaani, Oulu. I have set up 1758 Eric as married in Vuokki, Paltamo to Margeta Kyllonen in 1782 and they had 6 children, (Henric 1783; Walborg 1785; Elin 1788; Eric 1789; Johan 17491; Eva 1793). After Elin was born in 1788 the residence was Vuokki, Suomussalmi???
The name of the father for both Erics are similar but the mother's are different.
In addition to the 2 Hiski birth registries I have included my Ancestry.com lineage of 1758 Eric. Of course I may have the wrong Eric in my tree.

Katie kirjoitti: 1762 Eric born Kajaani, Oulu.

The birth place of Eric makes no sense. Kajaani and Oulu are two different places. Eric could not have been born in two different cities. If by "Oulu" you mean Oulun lääni that makes no sense either, because Oulun lääni did not exist in 1762.

*Sigh* My pet peeve is people that apply American style place names (county, state, country) to other countries and get the county and country wrong.

The correct birth place of Eric, American style, is

Kajaani or Kajana (1), Ostrobothnia County, Sweden

(1) Kajaani=Finnish name, Kajana=Swedish name.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostrobothnia_County

*End of rant.* Aahh! Feeling good now.

You could save yourself a lot of anguish and hatred of Americans if you just take Americans out of nationalities that you will help. Or, if you really want to be happy and stress free just don't do this anymore!!!!! Your problem is solved. Whining is never becoming!

Katie kirjoitti:You could save yourself a lot of anguish and hatred of Americans if you just take Americans out of nationalities that you will help. Or, if you really want to be happy and stress free just don't do this anymore!!!!! Your problem is solved. Whining is never becoming!

Why do you keep asking help if you do not like (all) answers? You do not care if your data is correct or not? OK. That's your choice.

Borders are important. Let me put it this way. Some of my ancestors were born in Sweden, some were born in Russia, some were born in Finland, some were born in Sweden and died in Russia, some were born in Russia and died in Finland, but all of them were born, lived and died in the same village and never moved.

Ostrobothnia (or Oulu when it's the lääni) are not counties, they are closer to states than anything else. County would be similar to kunta, which usually (but not always) coincides with the parish.

I know very few genealogists who list the birth country as something else than Finland if it was somewhere in modern day Finland. Personally, I don't even record the country unless it's outside of Finland, but that's because almost all of ny ancestors are from the area that is now Finland. Adding the lääni or maakunta to the place name and using historically accurate place names would make it increasingly difficult (I do record the parish and village as it was at the time of the birth/marriage/death, though. That is to make it easier to find the original record). There are 11 different lääni maps from 1634-1809 (under Swedish rule), 4 from 1809-1917 (Russian rule) and 11 under independent Finland 1917-2009 (with 7 extra changes during two of those maps). That is probably why most American programs (at least the one's that I've seen used) use the "historical" lääni areas from 1997 before they turned the 12 lääni into 6. So if you type Kajaani into Ancestry, it will give you "Kajaani, Oulun Laani, Finland". If you type it to FamilySearch, it gives you "Kajaani, Oulu, Finland". So Katie's birth place makes perfect sense to an American and depending on the program she might be forced to write it like that. Not all programs act the same way.

That was very helpful, Jani. Thank You. Where my ancestors settled here the same thing is true and you wouldn't know it if you did not have relatives living in that area. Some of their historical documents such as birth certificate will show one name and in a translation to English someone will have named the new current name at the time of entry. Eric I got a hint from a leaf in Ancestry and I questioned it.
Thanks again.
Janice

If you type it to FamilySearch, it gives you "Kajaani, Oulu, Finland".

Thanks for the explanation, jani. "Kajaani, Oulu" makes no sense to a Finn who does not know that.

Besides, border changes, and place names at the time an event took place, are important to a person whose ancestors moved from one country to another wihout moving anywhere.

I agree, it's important to try to find out as much as possible on the history of the place your ancestors come from. It's hard for English speakers, since not a lot (or any?) of local histories are written in English. Good thing they can always ask us for help.

Out of curiosity, two questions.

1) Into what country Family Search and other American secondary (or tertiary...) sources put the city of Viipuri? In real life it has been in Sweden, Russia, Finland, Soviet Union/Russia.

2) Do those sources say that someone was born in Texas, USA at a time when Texas was independent or part of Mexico?

Answer to the question.
Margareta Johansdotter Kyllönen 1763 sister of Valborg Johansdotter Kyllönen 1751.
Paltamo – christened
(24.6.1751 12.7.1751 Wuocki Joh. Kyllönen Walb. Junotar Walborg)
4.1.1763 24.2.1763 Vuocki J. 228 Joh. Kyllönen Valb. Junnutar Margareta
Paltamo – married
(12.3.1769 Bds. Joh. Henr.s. Heickinen Bddr Valb. Joh.dr Kyllötär Wuocki)
15.3.1782 B.s. Eric Henrici Heickinen B.dr Marg. Joh.nis Kyllötär Wuocki
Margareta's husband Eric Henrici Heickinen (Eric Henricsson Heikkinen)
Paltamo - christened
29.11.1758 6.12.1758 Vuocki Henr. Heickinen Elin Kakitar (Heikitär ?) Ericus
[Mother's name Elin Heikitär (Heikkinen) 1726-1765, Henric's first wife]
Paltamo – buried
23.7.1765 22.9.1765 Vuocki F. 241 Elin Olofsdr Heikitär Fl. feb. 30yrs
2.6.1785 27.6.1785 Wuocki Henric Henrici Heickinen Svuln. 76yrs (must be 66yrs)
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=6148667
Paltamo church book, Eric 1758 and his parents.
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=6150350
Paltamo church book, Eric 1758 and Margareta 1763.
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=6139577
Suomussalmi church book
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=6122044
Suomussalmi church book
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=6122218
Suomussalmi church book
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=8154720
Hyrynsalmi church book, Margareta died 1809
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=8154654
Hyrynsalmi church book, Eric died 1825
Hyrynsalmi – buried
8.5.1809 1.6.1809 Hyryns. 28 Bd.hu Margeta Kyllötär Rötfeb. 51yrs 21d.
1.11.1825 4.12.1825 Hyr. 28 Husb.Enkl. Eric Heickinen Ålder 67yrs 1m.

Some links of Valborg’s and Margareta’s family
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=6148655
Paltamo Church book, Johan Johansson Kyllönen and Valborg Junnotar with the family.
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=6148893
Paltamo Church book, Valborg go to page 239
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=6149288
Game here
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=6150349
And is here

And have you notice that Margareta’s and Valborg’s husbands are brothers.

http://hiski.genealogia.fi/hiski/7sjwft?en
When you click here for example Paltamo you find “More information about this parish”.
And you see also a map where you can see the situation of Paltamo and the nearest parishes.

Paula

Thank you Paula for taking the time to help me. It's much appreciated. Brothers? Interesting.
Janice

Hello, Paula
Reviewed your links and was able to gain additional information for this family, such as death, burial and cause of death. I have a question regarding Paltamo in 1765. I looked in Hiski deaths 1765 and discovered of the 229 deaths there were 105 deaths from Feb.; FI Feb; H.Feb.
This looks like very high fevers and I am wondering if there was an epidemic. I checked 1764 with 209 deaths and the fever may have been on the rise then, perhaps peaked in 1765 and then in 1766 with 184 deaths it was starting to decline. I also noticed that this high fever was occurring in all 4 seasons.
What are your thoughts? One of my ancestors had 3 deaths within days of each other in one family. A mother and 2 children.
Thanks again for the links you sent - they were extremely helpful.
Janice

That is probably why most American programs (at least the one's that I've seen used) use the "historical" lääni areas from 1997 before they turned the 12 lääni into 6.

Do they put former Finnish "Viipurin lääni" area into Russia and thus convert over 10 percent of Finns and their descendants Russians? Perhaps, because I have seen in Genie a man who was born in 1923 in "Vyborg, Leningradskaya Oblast, Russia".

To foreigners, who don't know what I am talking about: Soviet Union conquered South-East Finland (roughly, "Viipurin lääni") in winter 1939-1940 (see Winter War). About 12 % of Finnish population lived there. Since they did not want to live under Stalin they came to "stump-Finland" (Finland not conquered by USSR) and they and their descendans are still living here and consider themselves to be Finns and not Russians.

And that's why using modern political boundaries does not work in genealogy.

Full disclosure: my ancestors are from "Viipurin lääni".

Hello Janice!

http://www.saunalahti.fi/hirvela/histor ... 20a-k.html
http://www.saunalahti.fi/hirvela/histor ... itnew.html
http://www.saunalahti.fi/hirvela/histor ... hsivu.html
I think that these links are quite useful.
And I did not find any hints of the 1764-1766 epidemic.

And more links to look about Heickinen’s (Heikkinen) family. Some might be same than before.

http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=6148224
Churc book, Henric (Johansson) Heickinen and wife Elin (Johansdotter) Tuuliatar [parents of Henric Henricsson Heickinen 1719 and also son Johan and his wife Margeta Heikitär, daughter Carin, sons Anders (Henric) and Lars]
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=6148370
Tuliala (house name)
Henric Heickinen and Elin Tuuliatar also sons Johan and Anders mentioned
Paltamo-buried
20.5.1757 15.6.1757 Vuocki Elin Johsdr Tuliatar H. feb. 61, (born about 1696)
27.5.1757 15.6.1757 Vuocki Henric Johs(son) Heickinen H. feb. (78, born about 1679)
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=6148667
Anders Henricsson Heickinen and his family
Brother (bror) Henric Henricsson Heickinen and his first wife Elin Heikitär and second wife Elin Pöllötär (was widow when she go to married with Henric).
Son Henric 1739 and wife Brita Heikitär 1742, Henric’s sons Henricus 1762 and Jacod 1764-1766 and daughter Elin 1765
Son Olov 1742, son Johan 1744, son Lars 1747, daughter Elin 1750-1762, daughter Carin 1753 and Margareta 1753 death (död) and son Ericus 1758.
(Paltamo – married
21.9.1766 F. 341 B. Henr Henrs Heickinen Ea Elin Johsdr Pöllätär Vuocki)
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=6149287
N:o 23 Tuuliala
Anders Heickinen and his family
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=6149288
Anders daughters Brita 1756, Carin 1762
Ander’s brother Henric 1719 and second wife Elin Pöllötär 1719 (Eric 1751 and Johan 1756 from Elin’s first married with Erick Kinnunen)
Son Henric 1739 and his family
Son Olov 1742 and his family
Son Johan 1744 and Valborg Kyllötär 1751, daughter Elin 1772 and Walborg 1772
Son Lars 1747, daughter Carin 1753 and Ericus 1758
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=6149795
Henric Heickinen and Elin Pöllötär
Sons Henric, Olov and Johan and their families.
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=6149796
More Johan’s barns
Henric’s son Lars and his family
Henric’s daughters Carin and Elin and son Eric and Elin’s sons from first marriage Eric and Johan
Henric’s brother Ander’s son Johan and his family
Henric’s brother Ander’s son Anders and his family
Henric’s brother Ander’s daughter Margareta
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=6149797
Henric’s brother Ander’s daughters Walborg, Brita Carin and Ander’s wife Anna Härötär (mor=mother)

Hope all went right.
Paula

Ancestry:
Viipuri, Leningrad, Russia

Familysearch:
Viipuri, Viipuri, Finland